Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Period. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. Thats deflecting from the real issue. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. Mine is very accurate. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Sig Sauer Faces $10 Million Lawsuit over P320 Pistol After Alleged Sound familiar? is the manual safety a kit you add? Detective sues Sig Sauer after she says her holstered P320 handgun A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . Lawsuit: Sig Sauer pistol fired without trigger pull - Portsmouth Herald Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. Too Many Accidents The Hide Armory. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . It has nothing to do with Glock. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The P320 pistol is a dog. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. That could happen easily. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. That took a lot. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. P320 Accidental Discharge Still an Issue : r/SigSauer - reddit First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! My gun just went off! My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. . So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. P320 X Compact is it safe CCW | SIG Talk Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Asking for a friend. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. Look a fanboy. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. He points to it in the video. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. Great job, this threat needed some levity! TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. Sig can burn for all I care. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. You arent a gunfighter, either. It did not originally have this. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. Sig Sauer P320: The US Army Loves This Gun (But There Is a Problem) Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. Thats SIGs term for a recall. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. He was told to shoot two rounds. ALL OF THEM. Wounded by his own Holstered Sig Sauer P320, Veteran Tampa Police You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. And thats just my opinion. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. Good job! Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Texas Penal Code - PENAL 42.12 | FindLaw Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. Would you? Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM I continue to bet my life on them. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. JTF-2 is the only unit in. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. They didnt have to, but did. First off, no joke on me. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Yaaay! The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. , 54 people all shooting themselves. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. LOL! To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. How about something more relevant. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. I agree. Excellent work. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. Sig Sauer lawsuit: Man charged in wife's shooting death blames gun At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Where is that defect now? In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he .
