(The idea being that it would produce the same ballistics as 7.62 x 39 mm communist bloc platforms in AK-47 carbines/rifles.). The Best For Plinking/Shooting/Training – Magtech First Defense. In subsonic, the 300blk has a similar grain weight to .45ACP with a more narrow profile and better BC. This PDW was designed to be as quiet as the MP5SD but with three times the effective range, all in a lighter weight, slightly more compact form. The .40 S&W was born, delivering a 180-grain bullet and 950 fps in a 9mm-sized pistol. Every machine dreamed up by man will fail, sooner or later. Lower grains = faster velocity = less momentum = quicker tumbling after first hit = less penetration with the 5.56 vs both those calibers. Optional, but not required. I told jim to get his pot plants, his puny AR mouse rifle and his dope dealing ass off my property. Fun (and very important) question: do .300 AAC Blackout barrels have a twist rate that stabilizes 220 grain bullets at 1,000 feet per second without “overstabilizing” 110 grain bullets at 2,400 fps? A do all sort of thing that covers home defense on the one hand and still works in the field. Penetration is penetration as far as I'm concerned. They’re great for use inside of buildings and other small spaces — clearing rooms, ships, what-have-you. It’s too bad they can’t find a speed at which things do get done, but with somewhat more intelligence than the average tree frog. For the time being supressors are out of my price range. You have no idea how badly I want a compact semi-automatic carbine with a 16-inch barrel chambered in .357 Magnum. If you’re going the Tavor route why not just stick with 5.56? Cinderblock buildings maybe. Even with fmj? if so, more power to ya. One factor you always have to consider in a home defense scenario is over-penetration. Hearing loss is cumulative so as long as you don't plan on being involved in home defense shootings every night I think youll be ok lol. I was under the impression 5.56 would penetrate more then 9mm hollowpoints. Like 145 ft-lbs. If we are talking about SMG use, users are looking for a very short package, very short range, lots of ammunition, and accurate burst or full auto suppressed fire. Wouldn’t use a 9mm suppressor when shooting supersonic Blackout, but an emergency it would be fine for limited rounds. They’re designed for distance. The sound will drive out an intruder as quick as anything else. Might want to check that first. None of this applies to tube magazines, or belts, or hopper feeds, or any other feeding systems other than box mags. The 308 Winchester is a full powered rifle round that was designed in 1952. I don’t understand all the “this is better” versus “that is better stuff”. Namely, that autoloaders fed by box mags really require rimless rounds, which is the reason they were invented in the first place. The two round burst with 10mm, slap on those kriss G21 mag extensions, and you’ve got a massive win. Simply changing out magazines is all that’s necessary to switch between subsonic loads and supersonic 300 BLK. Id pick what you shoot best. Given the fact the 300 Blackout is such a versatile round we’ve broken up our choices by end purpose. And I figure that is worthwhile to get an extra 200 fps (or thereabouts) at the muzzle on those lighter bullets for longer range shooting. I’d love to know what loading you have that can push 158 grain 357 from a 16″ rifle at 2000+ fps. So will shotguns. When looking at home defense, it’s important to look at velocity and overall energy when deciding on your home defense round. (Such as VIP protection.) Either round will go through multiple walls. At least on paper, that's my thought. This was an interesting article. Voilà! Even at 50yds, I have no problem moving, dumping the mag, and staying on target. Also in terms of durability the HB can not hold a candle to the MP5 not even close. I work with them regularly. If you think about those three problems, and how one might get around them, you will be relearning all that the arms industry learned over a century ago. I have a pistol with a light on it on my bedside safe and my SIG Rattler next to it....my ears cringe for the day I have to fire the Rattler, no suppressor yet but that is the ultimate goal. However, 9mm suppressors and subsonic 9mm ammunition are a helluva lot more common and affordable than any subsonic rifle round. A purpose built gun for a specific purpose. Neither. 99? That’s a little carbine type job that fires a pistol round instead of a rifle round. (And it would have to come with 20 round magazines.). The military takes advantage in a group of soldiers by diversifying the weapons rather than “monocropping” them with only one limited version. From my personal experience, I’ve now had 3 300BLK uppers and gotten rid of all of them. I had a couple questions im hoping you guys with more experience may be able to help with. I don’t reload. The bullet fragments left behind when they came apart in midflight were too small to even make it to the paper. Q’s Honey Badger is still MP5-sized but it weighs less and can fire a capable rifle round. But I don’t get the home defense 9mm PCC attraction. I zeroed at 25 yards and the POI POA for 110 gr and 208 gr bullets is close enough that I don’t have to re-zero if I switch weights. If it is highly sought after, the purchase requests and solicitations don’t reflect that. Also keep in mind hollow points have a "goldilocks" velocity to operate correctly. BUT… I can peel my orange with my thumbnail, but I cannot do that with the apple. Or 300 BLK vs 300 BLK if comparing the two most similar things is the goal . This makes the 300 Blackout an outstanding home defense round. “at least match that MP5SD CQB performance” In this video, I go into my real-life experience as why I have the option to reach for a 300 blackout AR-style platform rifle for home defense. Also in most places I’ve seen it’s nearly $1 per round. Both .300 BLK and 5.56mm NATO cartridge belong from the intermediate class. So if your pcc's barrel is too long you may have issues. This First Choice ammo is designed under the same rigorous standards of quality Daniel Defense applies to their weapons, so you know it can depend on it. Would be nice to know how non-FMJ expanding subsonic .300 Blackout rounds, such as Lehigh 194gr Subsonic Maximum Expansion, would compare as a subsonic expanding non-FMJ seems to be the most logical indoor home defense round for .300 BLK. People always compare it to whatever they want so that it makes themselves feel better about the choices and philosophies they have already sunk their money into. It needs a can to really shine. That’s sans magazine and optic, but that includes the suppressor (of course). Surprise surprise, 300 blackout will outperform 9mm. Even .22LR will blow through a couple layers of drywall. Sort of a jack of all trades equally at home beside the bed or in the truck. Barnes 110-grain VOR-TX TAC-TX. Just rebarrel to a shorter chamber that then headspaces on the case mouth, the same as almost all other rimless, straight walled cases do. There is another potential 10mm for hunting and bear defense that I don’t have, and that is the S&W 610. box magazine trouble with .357 Magnum cartridges could be a huge drawback needless to say. Interesting comparison. I doubt you would have the time to put on ear pro when seconds count and you're under stress reacting to the situation. But either of these are going to go through a lot of walls. But 300BLK is a highly sought after caliber in Socom. The same can be said for LE units in the US and abroad. The same principle applies to followup shots in semi-auto. • What are the best uses for 300 AAC Blackout? While I 100% agree with the article, I at least didn’t see one important point. It loses past 100 yards compared to most intermediate cartridges. Remember that no one wants to carry TWO rifles into a CQB situation(but perhaps you do. I have the .223 brass to make the cases. Wouldn’t use a 9mm suppressor when shooting supersonic Blackout, but an emergency it would be fine for limited rounds. Only thing that’s off is ballistics for shots at range. The clear winner here: 300 AAC Blackout. When it comes to subsonic shooting, there are lots of much better options. But they did like the pink cases they came in LOL. As your article above states, you could use sub-sonic loads with a suppressor for stealth attacks. I’ve had to carry both a MP5SD and a MK18 at the same time. Best .300 Black Out Home Defense Loads: 1. Hmm interesting I was under the impression that 9mm hollow points would be the least penetration. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Still loads up front, which IMHO you might as well use something with a little more steam like 5.56 or .300 Blackout. Let’s stretch the legs on the .458 S Pig Truth plus see what that same .45 cal 255 grain flat nose does at 1,300 fps from my .460 Rowland. Uncommon Sense: I’d kind of like a 10mm semi-auto ca rbine with a magazine that feeds up the grip, but the only one I can think of is the High-Point. The strength of the muzzle climb has always surprised me on this setup, as I expect such gentle recoil from the subsonic ammo but that really isn’t the case at a high rate of fire. This totally validates my decision to make my next AR build a pistol in 300 BLK. With subsonic loads, it’s just as quiet as you’d hope. what next? That would hit REALLY hard at close range. The main reason is that .300 Blackout projectiles (at least the supersonic ones) are much heavier, and more likely to penetrate barriers. The main reason is that .300 Blackout projectiles (at least the supersonic ones) are much heavier, and more likely to penetrate barriers. Expansion proved to be reliable, and penetration ended in the first wall after passing through the 12” of ballistic gel. My go to home defense weapon now is a 9" 300BO with Barnes TSX. However, if I’m buying a trustworthy and quality AR chambered in 300Blk, I’m looking more at around $700- on the low end. Home Defense Cons Price. Drill feature costs $75. 300 BLK ar pistols are loud as fuck if you don’t have subs/ a suppressor. To get around these feeding problems that no one ever could manage to do satisfactorily with rimmed rounds. An agile, short-barreled M4 carbine in 300 Blackout addresses the deficiencies of both. Jeremy is TTAG's Deputy Editor, working mostly behind the scenes but, when he attempts to write, he focuses on comprehensive gun & gear reviews. 357 Sig or 10mm, okay. One of the big reasons why people don’t use a carbine for home defense is because they’re afraid of overpenetration…especially compared to a pistol round like the 9mm. We aren’t exactly worlds apart here. Potential (likely?) Not sure who you are talking to. They expanded violently all right. Here is a good little history on the 38super: Of course the simple solution is to make an almost identical .357 Magnum cartridge that is simply rimless! Yeah, the bullpup design has some real advantages in certain situations. This is a shocking conclusion. But exit that building out onto the streets of some urban combat zone, and suddenly you’re horribly out-gunned. A 9mm would be loud too of course but I would say 300 is louder. If I’m going for a pseudo-long gun, I’d like more oomph than that. If I am in a home defense situation and don't Have time for hearing pro, would the 300 blackout be better or worse for me then a 9mm from say a glock 19 or AKV? SUBSCRIBE. And it doesn’t come with that nifty lever at the bottom. .458 socom vs .300 blackout .. ya I'm late, found out about .300 blackout and was all hot to build an upper .. then found out about .458 socom and our very own Tony Rumore's involvement in development of .458 socom. I like 300BLK as a reloader. Many of the reasons for buiding or buying a .300 Blackout aren’t as valid as some make out, the costs are about the same, and while some still try to perpetuate the idea that it works just fine from M16 magazines, the reality is that the width of the .300 in a double stack column hits the vertical ribes and forces the tips of the rounds together. Thank you for this article. This may change over time as more companies have recently started offering .300 Blackout models in addition to the .223/5.56. It’s a 1-3 MOA gun depending on the ammo (I’ve found both supersonic and subsonic factory ammo that puts up 1-minute, 5-round groups at 100 yards from the Honey Badger). 10mm Auto with 200 grain JHP loaded to .40 S&W levels. It’s relatively expensive to shoot and if you’re not practicing with it, then it’s not a good home defense round. Kenneth, you’ve missed the forest for the trees there. If you are shooting animals under 100lbs at under 50 yards, the expanding subs work just fine. I think the compromise in 300 BLK was around doing as much as possible while using STANAG mags and standard AR15 bolts, etc. Typically anything over 200gr is subsonic when chambered in 300 Blackout. Don’t just assume that every gun has feeding malfunctions “every once in a while”, but instead just answer the question properly. My gut feeling is that it’s a massive overpressure. Again, small pigs or deer at short range, they work just fine. people have a number of rounds to pick from when it comes to 300 Blackout. .357 magnum. • Range: The NATO round wins on range, however, the Blackout is the superior round for hunting game. Oh and that 8.6 we chatted about a few months ago – that’ll likely have an even faster twist barrel than what’s in the HB (1:5). Chambered in the right firearm it does everything the MP5SD can do — but better — in a 28% lighter package with the same footprint, then it adds full-on carbine capabilities on top. But is it as good as the .9mm Creedmorest? There is already a rimless cased .357. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. While the AAC Blackout supersonic ammo turns it into a genuine 250-300-yard sniper. Not sure if it's legal where you live, though. Where are all those rims going to go as you stack them up? For longer engagements, run supersonic rounds — typically 110 to 147 grain projectiles at up to 2,400 fps. If you are looking to shoot a lot of rounds, you will need deep pockets or a reloading press. Not, as many tend to think, as competition for the M4 (5.56 NATO AR-15 carbine). This is called “versatility” and is the exact opposite of your attitude, which I would sun up as: the best of all worlds is having every possible thing for every possible situation one might encounter. Either the rounds have to stack behind each other by the thickness of the rim, slanting rearward(like the Enfield, which is only 10 rounds and not autoloading), or they have to stack straight on top of each other, meaning a lot of taper to the round, which then also means a lot of forward curve will be required in the magazine(think Chauchat magazines, the shape required for feeding the rimmed 8mm Lebel), or the mag can be made much thicker through the rear portion, and hold the rounds by pinching the fronts and just letting the rear, rimmed areas flop around as they desire, the way the Walther P-22 mags work. Except with the significantly higher ballistic coefficient of the projectile you’re going 300 fps faster and 875 ft-lbs at 200 yards vs. with the .357 Mag. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/state-your-case-9mm-vs-300-blackout Going from a 1:8 twist to a 1:5 twist you increase the rotational energy over 250%. Jeremy strives to collect objective data whenever possible, and looks to write accurate reviews that reflect the true user experience. No really, we are. It’s a niche weapon for when a pistol isn’t quite enough, but even a small carbine would be inappropriate for the mission profile. I can dump a magazine from my MP5K with a brace into a 6″ circle in a couple of seconds at 15 yards. Obviously, the 9mm won’t hit very hard, especially at longer range but I don’t really envision using it that way. 89? I’m going to build a 9mm pcc for several reasons including the fact that i think my wife will able to operate it better than a pistol. Then AAC needed more marketing and used that as the starting (and ending) point for another alternative cartridge for the AR15, and the suppressed application became their tool to sell more silencers. This expands effective range to about 440 meters thanks to significantly more aerodynamic bullets leaving the barrel at 240% the velocity of those 9mms. Then again, 9mm will always have a place in handguns, and its popularity in pistol caliber carbines isn’t going anywhere as it’s so cheap and fun to shoot. One factor you always have to consider in a home defense scenario is … Without fiddling with your magazines to get.. say.. even two or three mags w/o a feed stoppage? It lives to be suppressed! Oakland University Will Give Profs, Students Hockey Pucks to Fend Off Active Shooters, This Old Rifle: Finding The Right Ammo Makes All the Difference, Handy in an Emergency: Know How to Quickly Train Someone to Shoot Safely, DEATH AND TAXES: Help Your Family Value Your Guns and Safely Sell Unwanted Firearms and Accessories, The Truth About: Hollow Point Bullets [Video], https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/10/jeremy-s/hands-on-with-dead-airs-new-nomad-30-suppressor/, https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/38-super/. Stamp $200. JWT, Can I assume you were using 1:8 or 1:7 twist barrels back before you washed yourself of the caliber? Sign up for the free newsletter! NASA Security has a MP5 that has over 1 million round thru it as they log every round. • Defense: The NATO round breaks apart on impact, making it a safer and more practical round for home defense than the 300 Blackout. Someone can choose to use a 110gr bullet or 220gr bullet depending on the application. . It’s not anywhere on their priority list. Home Gear & Ammo Ammunition 10mm Defensive Ammo: ... Voilà! The down side is you still need a working pistol frame to mate with the upper. Ammo cost (unless you are .gov or reload) for .300 Blackout is the main thing keeping it from being a general purpose range gun. I always thought of .300 AAC Blackout as a possible replacement for 5.56 x 45 mm NATO. My opinion I would choose a rifle/PCC over a pistol more because of the round capacity and overall control of the weapon. My last concern is price of ammo? For home defense you start by saying a short, suppressed .300 BO is great for home defense (agreed). I don’t thing 9mm SMG users intend to have their weapons do the same thing as .300BO – or the Mk 18 Mod 0 for that matter. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/06/jeremy-s/gun-review-iwi-tavor-x95-300-blackout/. But I can definitely see the utility of 300 BLK. The Honey Badger weighs 5 lbs 5 oz on my kitchen scale. I picked up a Kel-Tec RDB a while back. Different applications. So I haven’t lived in an apartment for a few years now, I used a 9mm handgun. The short package and accurate burst/full auto fire is a key. For me the cheap reloads and the same controls as my ARs make it a good training tool. They are a fine and well built firearm, and, IMO, worth their high price tag. 5.56 NATO ammo Many have fallen to bricks, nuclear weapons and arteriosclerosis over the years but that doesn't necessarily make any of them the best choice for home defense I don't have much experience with the 300 Blackout since I just got my first one a few months back, but I have shot quite a few hogs with a 7.62x39 using both supersonic and subsonic rounds. Loud and the most gasses gun I have ever shot supressed was a 300BO Rattler with supersonic ammo. Now with the Sig SURG contract and the fact they have lengths from 5.5 9 11.5 14.5 16 etc they have all but killed the HB in terms of SOCOM use. Especially after you add a suppressor to any of the micro-SMGs you mentioned. For home defense, I’d take 5.56mm over .300 Blackout. With my duty pistol I am pushing a heavier round just as fast or faster, and getting solid pass throughs on deer and pigs, something I wasn’t getting with the expanding 300 subs. It’d be cheaper to feed, albeit not subsonic. When we are talking subsonic rounds at 50 yards and under, the 300BLK is on par with pistol rounds for performance, and is surpassed by many of those pistol calibers. If you’re leaning towards a rifle for home defense instead of a pistol or shotgun, 300 Blackout may sound like a superior choice, but this isn’t necessarily the case. Sig’s tight twists on the MCX were over spinning Lehigh 78 grain high velocity bullets so bad they were coming apart. Check out guns of glory at these links!Need ammo? Are you comparing 300 AAC Blackout to 5.56 NATO? shotgun has several problems that make it less than adequate as a great home defense weapon Comparing the .300 Blackout to the .300 Win Mag is an especially challenging discussion, and this is the discussion that we will be having in this article..300 BLACKOUT. More. But you’re right a PS-90 is not a machine pistol. Yes parts were replaced as part of maintance but even the best ARs have about a 125K receiver life. I’m neither but it seems to me that a team with a combination of M4s and a couple 9mm sub guns would be a better idea than a team using just .300blk. Keep in mind a 300 BO has 50% more energy than a ,44 magnum! That would be an apple to apple comparison. Carry a revolver AND a lever action carb ine chambered in it. Let’s break it down the specifics. Now prepare for much crying and yammering from the 300blk ownz allz crowd. It’s designed for use in short barrels and with a suppressor. 300 BLK was tested down to 1:2 twist rates without seeing pressure spikes. Best of both worlds. You are comparing a cartridge to a platform. The AAC Blackout subsonic ammo is really meant for a silenced gun and the general impression is that you end up with roughly 45 ACP ammo stopping power. I am also concerned with my precious hearing. Supersonic rounds drop to subsonic before they reach 400 yards which can destabilize a bullet and my Primary Arms 3X with a BDC shows it dropping out of the window after 600. Too bad the SIGs are horrible suppressed. The .40 S&W was born, delivering a 180-grain bullet and 950 fps in a 9mm-sized pistol. Sharing on GBGuns. Also as others will point out the akv is considered more of a range toy than anything else. Hunting, home defense, and competition style shooting, the .300 AAC Blackout does it all. Sticky washes off, and I can always peel the apple with my teeth if I’m of a mind to do so. Life finds a way. Namely, higher sectional density for improved penetration and sleeker ballistics, plus massive expansion capability. The cost and availability of .300 Blackout ammo is the only keeping it from being the new standard cartridge for carbines. With the same grip, controls, trigger, weight, optic, ergos, etc that training would be highly valid. Colt came out with the Delta, and that jump-started the 10mm. That said, if what’s wanted is an effective subsonic, suppressed semi auto that plays well indoors, but has the capability of barrier penetration and accuracy/effect at range like a carbine when distances open up, where does the 300 stand? It is a very desirable thing, esp. Also known as the AAC Honey Badger. Yes, well Mr. pwrswerge ain’t looking at a select fire build. BTW a P90 in the shorty barrel length is 20″ long without a suppressor and weighs 5 lbs 13 oz. Rifle cartridges reach further with more – there is some overlap but the rifle cartridge has much more throw at longer distances and is more effective. I had a couple questions im hoping you guys with more experience may be able to help with. So, which is better: the apple that I can’t peel because I somehow have no knife(I guess somebody stole my pants and I never noticed. Beyond that a shotgun with #4 buckshot, or a less lethal option like a bear fogger, might be a better solution for your needs. The Honey Badger is 26″ long with the stock collapsed with the suppressor and weighs 5 lbs 5 oz. You don’t have to peel apples, oranges IMO are quite bitter if left unpeeled.
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